#Burton-verse batman

[batsyx]

So I finished Batman Resurrection and I have thoughts:

Copied and pasted from my goodreads account FYI.

Some major points I want to talk about:

SPOILERS BELOW

The introduction of Clayface. He wasn’t just a pure bad guy. He had some genuine inner turmoil because he’s dealing with the changes of his body (Smylex exposure) and due to heavy manipulation by a certain character (it was Auslander), he ends up in the ultimate no-win situation. I normally don’t like it when characters origins are changed but if its done well and in service to the rest of the story then I dont mind here. We got a Basil Karlo that was a tragic victim, a guy who was simply at the wrong place, wrong time, wrong everything. You really do sympathize with him. What I’m trying to say here is that I liked the depth he was given here.

Dr. Hugh Auslander aka Dr. Hugo Strange. His name being German translation for stranger (not an exact translation i know but close enough), somehow I feel dumb for missing that. It was pretty obvious from the start though, his experience, the way he was using Clayface and Lawrence (jokers boombox henchmen), all his experiments. Like Clayface, Strange is a character we’ve not yet seen on the big screen but he would totally be a great villain to use. I liked his introduction to the Burton-verse and him being the guy who was working with the Joker behind the scenes on smylex, that makes sense. I remember theres a scene in the Batman movie where Joker is in his lair cutting up the photographs but on his desk there’s a file folder that said CIA top secret. His name being in that file folder totally works. I guess one could argue that if it weren’t for Strange’s involvement in the use of smylex, we wouldn’t have the Joker. At least according to this book.

Joker’s death and how it still affects Bruce. So having defeated the man who killed your parents, obviously thats gunna leave a mark on you mentally. The parts where he’s constantly dreaming about his final showdown with Joker in that cathedral, Joker mocks him every time. Most of the time he’s just saying nonsense but deep down it was Bruce’s subconcious nagging him. Basically telling him the stuff with Joker is not over. If you’re looking for more Batman-Joker stuff to analyze, you won’t find much here other than the dreams Bruce keeps having. Joker killed his parents so Bruce is trying his best to move on from him and the fallout from his demise. I always thought making Joker the killer of the Waynes was a weird choice at first. Especially when you grew up watching the movie as a kid and always believed that until you got older and read the comics and the animated show and realized “ohhh so it was joe chill”. It changes their dynamic, it’s not going to be the one you would expect. Making him the killer works because it gives Batman his motivation, especially when you factor in the whole “I made you, you made me” bit. I liked that the story tried to tackle Bruce’s emotional state and you do get some character development. Do I think this is the same man we see in Batman Returns? I think so, he seems to be more confident and sure of himself and his methods. I mean he’s never going to be OK in the normal sense but things have certainly changed for him.

Speaking of Joker, the whole “is he really dead or not” kinda dragged on too long for me. It went on for too long when I already knew he was truly dead. He had to be because then the rest of the movies wouldn’t make sense especially since this book is supposed to be considered cannon now. And Clayface pretending to be Joker, saw that coming a mile away.

I read an article that the author wanted to explain the plot hole of how Joker’s henchmen were on the rooftop of the cathedral by the time Batman makes it up there. Joker radios for a helicopter but somehow the henchmen, including boombox carrying Lawrence, were already there so fast so how did they know. I have to say I never thought it was that big of a deal. I always assumed they were there because they were stationed in case Joker had to escape via rooftop. Should Joker not have needed the helicopter and just left the building through the front door, then I thought Joker would radio them and tell them to come down. This is assuming they have radios too which I would assume all the henchmen do because how the hell do you communicate orders. When you’re 7 or 8 watching this movie, it’s not something you give a damn about. The other plothole he wanted to address was Joker telling Batman “Hey, bat-brain, I mean, I was a kid when I killed your parents”, Joker being a kid doesn’t make sense. In the movie, thats clearly a much younger man shooting the Waynes. I always understood that sentence as Joker thinking of himself as a “kid” because he was so young. I never took it literally. Despite that I do think the author was able to explain these plotholes in a way thats pretty easy.

I did like the little cameos and foreshadowing we got from various characters. Max Shreck, Selina Kyle and Harvey Dent all show up. I do feel like Max and Selina were kinda pointless, they were just there to have something to tie into Batman Returns. You take them out of the story and nothing really changes. The story ends with Bruce getting a riddle from, yep you guessed it, The Riddler. Kinda wild to know the Riddler has been messing with him for this long.

Do I think this book is worth checking out? If you’re a hardcore Batman fan and want more Burton-verse Batman, then yes absolutely check it out. It expands the Burton-verse while also setting up the stage for whats to come. I will note I did listen to this story via audiobook so that was a much more entertaining experience imo.

[yuleshootureye]

I don't think it's fair to say that people only like WFA if they prefer the fanon, idealized versions of Batfam characters.

More rambling about comics and fandom under the cut, but the tldr version is that a) sometimes people want slice-of-life stuff for their favorite characters and b) if I have to put up with Dark and Gritty, unnaturally-prepared, child-slapping Batman, fans of that guy can put up with some light and fluffy manor hijinks like WFA.

Yes, there is an active and vocal portion of DC fandom that wants things from canon that will never happen. Partially that's because fandoms typically always want things from canon that would never happen. Teen Wolf and SPN fans want a coherent narrative that actually addresses the themes and character choices portrayed on the show. CA:TWS fans want to dig their claws into Steve and Bucky's relationship AND the US Military Industrial Complex in a way that the MCU never will. Stranger Things fans want some honest-to-God character development. And part of what I see in DC fandom is similar: what do fans of works where the characters are constantly emotionally and physically stressed want from their fanworks? Hurt/COMFORT and/or curtain!fic, in my experience.

And yes, partially that's because there seems to be a large portion of DC fandom that have not read a significant portion of the comics.* And/or watched the tv show(s). And/or watched the movie(s). And fanon builds on fanon until suddenly Tim Drake is crying because no one has ever hugged him, Cas/Steph/Duke are Sir Not Appearing in this Film, Jason is Gotham's #1 feminist, Dick is a golden retriever in human form, Damain is baby™, and Bruce would NEVER endanger his children by letting them go out and fight crime. But that happens in every fandom, to some extent.

I think it's perhaps more pronounced in DC because it's a comics fandom without any one unifying canon that most people are drawing from. For good or for ill, the Marvel fandom is typically able to circle the wagons around the MCU, with people incorporating various aspects of the 616 or Fraction's Hawkeye or whatever Spider-Man movie's come out most recently. DC doesn't have that. There's 80+ years of comics, including reboots that are supposed to make things less confusing (but YMMV on the effectiveness of that), and characterizations that change with the times; CW live-action TV shows; the Snyder-verse live-action movies; the NON-Snyder-verse live-action movies; the DCAU or Dini-verse/Timm-verse; the DC animated movies that are generally adaptations of comic storylines; the 2005 Teen Titans animated show; the 2010 Young Justice animated show; TITANS; The Batman (the animated show!); The Batman (R. Battinson!); Gotham; Smallville; Lois and Clark; etc, etc, etc.

I came to comics from the DCAU. I watched Smallville far past the point where any reasonable person would have quit. When I first watched 1978's Superman, I was confused that John Kent was dead, because he wasn't in the canons I was most familiar with. It's obviously not a 1:1 comparison, but I do think the question of "what do you want from canon" depends on what canon you're talking about.

And I don't mean to sound like I'm coming down on the side of people who are only familiar with fanon trying to argue they know the characters better than people who've actually consumed canon. But I do think DC being such a broad canon with no unifying property makes it a difficult discussion to have unless you start off by identifying the parameters.

ANYWAY, the point I've been dancing around is that there's enough canon that when someone says "MY Batman would never do that", they might be talking about their fanon or they might be talking about animated show #903 or the Tim Burton movies or whatever. Also, I had to put up with Nolan!Batman being the Batman du jour for like 10 years. It's WAFF WFA Batman's turn to be in the spotlight for a hot minute.

(Also, as greater minds than mine have pointed out, comics are, in general, a collective mythology of the modern era. And if you've ever tried to look up the One True Version of a myth, you'll know it's a frustrating exercise in futility)

*Of course, there's also a question of "what counts as a significant portion of the comics". Someone semi-recently ran a poll of "would you say you've read a lot of comics" and I was torn because I've read a lot, but in fits and spurts over the last 20 years, based on what was available at my local library or bookstore, and with nowhere near the focused attention that others have managed.

[iam93percentstardust]

tony stark for your ask game? <3

peachy fren! thanks for the ask!

Favorite thing about them All of him. Every last bit. I left this question for last because I had no idea what to say. He's my favorite character of anything ever. Picking just one favorite is impossible.

Least favorite thing about them Hmmmmm, maybe how smart he is? But mostly just because it's so difficult to write. Oh, I know! The fact that Marvel, in an effort to keep up with the economy, has made him a billionaire because I'm so tired of seeing the coldest takes on how being a fictional billionaire makes him the literal devil.

Favorite line MCU: "I am Iron Man" (the first time) I'll admit I wasn't sold on the idea of Iron Man when I originally saw it. I grew up on the Tim Burton Batman films and only watched the X-Men movies for the scenes with Rogue in them (baby Alle had a crush), so I thought I knew what superheroes were and I wasn't overly impressed with them. And then Tony stood there and took accountability for his actions and at the very young age of 12, I sat up and took notice. Comics: "Good morning, beloved" because he's just so blasé about the whole thing. Why are you calling him beloved, Tony, hmm? Answer me, Marvel. I demand answers.

brOTP Rhodey & Tony. Hands down. Best brOTP in the entire world. My favorite chaos duo. Super smart when they're apart, the biggest idiots in the entire world when they're together.

OTP I feel like I shouldn't have to say this, but Stony. *gestures vaguely at my ao3* Obviously

nOTP Any of the pairings that came out of CACW. Are there good ones out there? Yeah, absolutely. Are they overshadowed by the absurd amounts of bashing fics that were written just to dump on Steve whether or not he'd been romantically involved with Tony in that verse? Yeah, and I don't feel like scrolling through all of them just to locate the gems.

Random headcanon Tony learned how to play the piano from his mom. She had a grand that was kept at the mansion that moved with him to Malibu and then to the tower (he's beyond thankful at his past self for insisting on having it moved instead of leaving it in the Malibu house to sink into the ocean when it was destroyed).

Unpopular opinion My unpopular opinion about Tony for the greater MCU fandom (and non-fans) is that he's a good character who doesn't deserve all the hate he gets. For actual Tony fans? My unpopular opinion is that he has the same mentor/mentee relationship with Peter that he has with Harley and the only reason Peter's gets so much more emphasis in the fandom is because Peter had his own movie with Tony in it.

Song i associate with them Taylor Swift's The Archer

Favorite picture of them This one. He just looks so happy!

[pick-and-shovel-laborer]

ooc ;; mun day catch up.

Mun comforts:

tagged by: @rolliesmuses

tagging: anyone

Jesse ( he/him )

Comfort food: Any kind of low carb/whole wheat pasta, especially lasagna; prosciutto sandwich on whole wheat with mustard; bison burger with fat free cheese and avocado on whole wheat bun

Comfort drink(s): Sugar free mocha

Comfort movie(s): All the first three Indiana Jones movies; all the Spider-Man "Home" movies, and the first two Raimi movies, and the two Spider-Verse movies; Dark Knight trilogy and the two Burton Batman movies, and Mask of Phantasm; Superman I and II with Christopher Reeve; Monty Python and the Holy Grail; Blazing Saddles; Spaceballs; Airplane!

Comfort show(s): Friends, Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm; Futurama; classic Looney Tunes cartoons

Comfort clothing: A t-shirt with Uncle Scrooge's head cut off so it looks like my head on Scrooge's body

Comfort song(s): Pretty much anything from James Taylor

Comfort book(s): Anything from Clive Cussler

Comfort game(s): DuckTales Remastered; classic Tetris

[pv55y]

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀💋⠀#𝐏𝐕𝟓𝟓𝐘 ,     𝘊𝘜𝘙𝘐𝘖𝘚𝘐𝘛𝘠   𝘒𝘐𝘓𝘓𝘌𝘋   𝘛𝘏𝘌   𝘊𝘈𝘛 ;   𝗦𝗔𝗧𝗜𝗦𝗙𝗔𝗖𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡   𝗕𝗥𝗢𝗨𝗚𝗛𝗧   𝗜𝗧   𝗕𝗔𝗖𝗞...⠀⠀A   PRIVATE ,   SINGLE-VERSE    &    SELECTIVE ,   COMPLETELY      CANON      DIVERGENT / HEADCANON      BASED   SELENA KYLE AKA CATWOMAN !⠀⠀MAINLY   inspired   by   Tim   Burton's   THE   BATMAN   RETURNS   but   characterization   is   𝘊𝘖𝘕𝘚𝘛𝘈𝘕𝘛𝘓𝘠   evolving ;   borrows   from   several  interpretations ,

⠀⠀⠀⠀ᴵ̲，BIOGRAPHY ,    ᴵ̲ᴵ̲，GUIDELINES ,   ᴵ̲ᴵ̲ᴵ̲，WRITING ,    ᴵ͟ⱽ͟，PROMPTS ,   ⱽ͟，AD / AD2 ,   ⱽ͟ᴵ͟，FACECLAIM ,

⠀⠀SIDEBLOG TO 𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗙𝗔𝗘𝗥𝗜𝗘𝗦𝗖𝗔𝗙𝗘 ;⠀⠀I'M UNABLE TO FOLLOW BACK !

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀𝐓𝐇𝐄   𝐂𝐀𝐓𝐍𝐈𝐏 :⠀⠀DESTRUCTION OF GIRLHOOD ,   CORRUPTED INNOCENCE ,   FEMME FATALE ,   DARK / TROUBLED PAST ,   𝘏𝘈𝘐𝘙 / 𝘏𝘌𝘈𝘙𝘛 𝘖𝘍 𝘎𝘖𝘓𝘋 ,   WOMAN CHILD ,   RESURRECTIVE IMMORTALITY ,   𝘞𝘏𝘖 𝘞𝘈𝘕𝘛𝘚 𝘛𝘖 𝘓𝘐𝘝𝘌 𝘍𝘖𝘙𝘌𝘝𝘌𝘙 ,   BEAUTIFUL ALL ALONG ,   CATS HAVE NINE LIVES ,   MAYBE MAGIC / MUNDANE    &    MANY   MORE ,

(⠀PLEASE READ THE PORTRAYAL NOTES, BOTH THE GENERAL RP RULES LINKED ABOVE    &    BLOG SPECIFIC RULES BELOW THE CUT,⠀)

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀𝖱𝖤𝖠𝖣 𝖱𝖴𝖫𝖤𝖲 𝖳𝖧𝖮𝖱𝖮𝖴𝖦𝖧𝖫𝖸 !     THIS BLOG IS RATED M ᴀᴋᴀ DEAD DOVE DO NOT EAT ﹗     CURATE   YOUR   OWN   EXPERIENCE :⠀⠀BLOCK   AT   YOUR   DISCRETION.⠀⠀the   following   content   may   be   present :⠀⠀non / dub   con ,   sexism ,   misogyny ,   bigotry ,   non-parental   incest ,   homophobia ,   transphobia ,   verbal   abuse ,    violence / gore ,   age   regression ,   classism / racism ,   slavery ,   age   gaps     &     MORE !⠀⠀ANTIS DON'T INTERACT !

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀DO   NOT   FOLLOW   ME   IF   YOU’RE   SEVERELY-CRITICAL   OF   EITHER   THE   MCU   OR   DCU;   criticizing   media   is   fine   &   dandy,   but   when   it   concerns   dictating   what   others   roleplay,   what   faceclaims   are   ‘allowed’   to   be   used,   etc,   that’s   where   I   draw   the   line.⠀⠀I   am   not   interested   in   such   negativity,   DON'T   BRING   THAT   HERE,   THANK   YOU !

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀NO   ICONS ,   we   die   like   men.⠀⠀Her   name   is   not   a   typo ;   my   Catwoman’s   name   is   ‘Selena’.⠀⠀She   is   a   kleptomaniac   &   though   she   has   femme   fatale   elements,   Selena   has   not   &   will   never   be   a   dominatrix   /   sex   worker;   IT’S   SIMPLY   NOT   WHAT   I’M   ENVISIONING   FOR   THIS   PORTRAYAL

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀Uncomfortable   topics   will   be   explored   here   &   possibly   talked   about   via   threads   ( including   sexual   ass*ult,   r*pe,   age   regression ,   depression ,   to   touch   on   a   few ) ;   everything   is   tagged.⠀⠀I   cannot   emphasize   enough   that   if   any   of   this   makes   you   uncomfortable ,   DO NOT FOLLOW !

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀I   consider   Selena   to   be   bi-curious,   as   she’s   still   exploring   her   sexuality   &   overcoming   social   biases ;   she   is   constantly   on   edge   &   deals   with   severe   mental   health   issues ;   it’s   not   pretty   or   to   be   romanticized.⠀⠀She   is   difficult   &   toxic ;   I   will   not   soften   her   characterization ,

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀I   have   always   shipped   the   Batman / Catwoman   dynamic   HOWEVER   for   this   blog ,⠀⠀I   WILL   NOT   AUTOSHIP   HER   WITH   BRUCE ;   such   a   dynamic   needs   to   be   explored   thoroughly ,   should   it   even   go   in   a   romantic   direction !⠀⠀Selena   has   difficulty   with   opening   herself   to   others ,   much   less   in   a   romantic   fashion

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀THIS   BLOG   IS   DUPLICATE   FRIENDLY !⠀⠀IT   IS   ENTIRELY   POSSIBLE   TO   HAVE   SELENA   INTERACT   WITH   OTHER   CATWOMEN ,   as   I   already   write   her   pretty   divergent   to   fanon   /   canon   characterization ,   but   also   because   she   is   not   quite   human   anymore

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀Selena’s   nine   lives   constantly   reset   [ should   she   lose   her   eighth   life ,   she   is   essentially   placed   in   a   ‘hibernation’   state ,   &   is   dead ,   A   ROTTING   CORPSE ,   for   nine   years   &   then   the   cycle   repeats ] ;   implied   universe   hopping ,   but   she   doesn’t   know   that   &   assumes   it’s   simply   the   future.⠀⠀Her   state   of   mind   is   fractured   from   DYING   MULTIPLE   TIMES ,

⠀⠀[ ✱ ]⠀⠀She   looks   quite   unhealthy ,   always   has   ailments   of   one   form   or   another.⠀⠀HOLLOW   CHEEKBONES ,   PALE   LIPS ,   BAGGED   EYES ,   DEAD-EYED   STARE ;   Selena   is   meant   to   look   off   putting ;   it’s   definitely   acceptable   for   muses   to   feel   frightened   or   put   off !

[frcshkills]

tv show muses ;

dana tan. batman beyond. age is verse dependent. heterosexual. fc ; natasha liu bordizzo + animated

max gibson. batman beyond. age is verse dependent. bisexual. fc ; tati gabrielle + animated

veronica vreeland. batman the animated series. twenty-three years old. heterosexual. fc ; christina hendricks + animated

jen lindley. dawson's creek. age is verse dependent. pansexual. fc ; michelle williams

fish mooney. gotham. forty years old. mobster. bisexual. fc ; jada pinkett-smith

amanda rollins. law & order svu. age is verse dependent. detective. heterosexual. fc ; kelli giddish

darlene alderson. mr. robot. twenty-five years old. hacker. bisexual. fc ; carly chaiken

constance d'artagnan. the musketeers. twenty-six years old. queen's assistant. bisexual. fc ; tamla kari

queen anne. the musketeers. twenty-two years old. royal queen. heterosexual. fc ; alexandra dowling

peyton sawyer. one tree hill. age is verse dependent. bisexual. fc ; hilarie burton

ada shelby. peaky blinders. twenty-seven years old. shelby lmt employee. bisexual. fc ; sophie rundle

sofia falcone. the penguin. (tv series canon) thirty-five years old. mobster. bisexual. fc ; cristin milioti

kimberly hart. power rangers. (very canon divergent) eighteen years old. power ranger + retail associate. bisexual. fc ; kaia gerber

frances neagley. reacher. thirty-five years old. corporate security. lesbian. fc ; maria sten

karla dixon. reacher. thirty-seven years old. forensic accountant. heterosexual. fc ; serinda swan

chloe sullivan. smallville. age is verse dependent. bisexual. fc ; kathryn newton

lois lane. smallville. twenty-five years old. journalist. bisexual. fc ; erica durance

martha kent. smallville. forty-five years old. heterosexual. fc ; annette o'toole

amelia richardson. supernatural. thirty years old. veterinarian. heterosexual. fc ; liane balaban

claire novak. supernatural. nineteen years old. hunter. bisexual. fc ; kathryn newton

ellen harvelle. supernatural. forty years old. saloon owner. heterosexual. fc ; samantha ferris

jo harvelle. supernatural. twenty-two years old. bartender & hunter. bisexual. fc ; alona tal

mary winchester. supernatural. forty years old. hunter. heterosexual. fc ; samantha smith

ruby. supernatural. twenty-five years old. demon. heterosexual. fc ; katie cassidy

lydia martin. teen wolf. age is verse dependent. heterosexual. fc ; holland roden

billie matalon. tracker. thirty-three years old. bisexual. fc ; sofia pernas

dory shaw. tracker. thirty years old. heterosexual. fc ; melissa roxburgh

reenie greene. tracker. thirty-five years old. bisexual. fc ; fiona rene

sarah miller. the last of us. (very canon divergent) thirty-three years old. bisexual. fc ; alexandra shipp

princess eleanor henstridge. the royals. twenty-three years old. royal. bisexual. fc ; alexandra park

bonnie bennett. the vampire diaries. seventeen years old. witch. heterosexual. fc ; kat graham

jenna sommers. the vampire diaries (seasons 1-3). twenty-five years old. grad student. heterosexual. fc ; sara canning

vicki donovan. the vampire diaries (season 1). sixteen years old. stoner + baby!vampire. bisexual. fc ; kayla ewell

daphne sullivan. the white lotus. thirty-six years old. stay at home mom. heterosexual. fc ; meghann fahy

portia. the white lotus. twenty-five years old. personal assistant. bisexual. fc ; haley lu richardson

tanya mcquoid. the white lotus. sixty years old. entrepreneur. heterosexual. fc ; jennifer coolidge

[starleska]

Slightly funny but mostly dumb thing: I don't have a TV, so your reblogs are the only info I'm getting on the DW specials

and when there was that cut to the original Toymaker's actor, because I'm not especially well-versed in any TV before the 80's, I was just like "... Timothy Dalton?"

I have no idea why.

wheeze!!! oh my goodness that's very funny 🙈💖 i hope you're able to see the specials when they're available online!!

the Toymaker's original actor is Michael Gough, best-known for playing the live action Alfred Pennyworth across the Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher Batman movies!! here he is with the First Doctor, William Hartnell 🥰

however, Timothy Dalton has been in Doctor Who...ironically also as a character in a RTD special!! he plays Rassilon, the Lord High President of the Time Lords, in The End of Time 😉

i see the resemblance!! though i have to admit, after watching the clips of Neil Patrick Harris as the Toymaker i think they cast exceptionally well, and that isn't just because of my bias as a fan of his work...he's got the same smile 🙈💖

[shree3redranger]

Actually the Snyderverse was always supposed to be Batman-focused. It was planned to retroactively include the Nolan Trilogy and GL 2011. Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot, Zachary Levi, Ray Fisher, Ezra Miller, Jason Mamoa (et. all) are meant to be the counterparts to Christian Bale and Ryan Reynolds as they were made with the "let's Titanify our mentors mentality" (seriously, MOS Clark is basically Conner and Clark is not Conner.), but those 4 movies are taking place in the past as the idea was that Batman's been around for almost as long as Wonder Woman and Ben Afflek was playing an Old Bat(man). Then when neither Batman or Superman was doing so hot the Snyderverse was attempting switching to Wonder Woman/Aquaman centric which gave them a huge boost, but ultimately didn't work so Flash rebooted and retroactively made the Shumaker movies the Bat-past for the Snyderverse and treated the Burton films as a hypertimeline alongside the Reeve/Slater-verse and showing that Superman '52 and Batman '66 remain their own timelines in the new movie-verse. I presume that some of the globes we didn't get to see revealed they are The DCU movies, Wonder Woman '77, Earth-988 (Superboy tv series) and Superman (Dean Cain)+ Flash (JWS).

[jules-has-notes]

Batman: Whatever It Takes (Unexpected Musical) — PattyCake Productions music video

It's often been observed that the masked vigilantes in comic books and the supervillains they fight have some things in common. One of those qualities is the will to go above and beyond what the average person would do, for good or ill. So when the PattyCake guys decided to dip their toes in the superhero pool, there was no better place to start than Tim Burton's version of Batman and some of his most notorious rogues.

Details:

title: Unexpected Musicals — Batman: Whatever It Takes

performers: Jason Tibbs (Batman), T. Robert Pigott (The Joker / featured vocals), James Keaton (The Penguin / featured vocals), Leah Lowman (Catwoman), Navid Nowakhtar (Tom Andrews); Hannah Juliano, Tony Wakim, & Layne Stein (featured vocals)

original songs / performers: "Batman Theme" & "Batman Suite" from Batman (1989) & Batman Returns (1992); "Whatever It Takes" by Imagine Dragons

written by: "Batman Theme" and "Batman Suite" by Danny Elfman; "Whatever It Takes" by Dan Reynolds, Wayne Sermon, Ben McKee, Daniel Platzman, & Joel Little

arranged by: Layne Stein & Tony Wakim

release date: 11 May 2018

My favorite bits:

the series title logo becoming dark and tarnished like the WB logo in the original 1989 film

that poor reporter reading his news copy like it's just a normal day (which, yeah, Gotham)

turning the barely-sung verses into actual spoken rap

Catwoman entering on ♫ "whip whip" ♫ while brandishing one

using a slowed down version of Elfman's orchestral theme under the chorus

Robby's fantasticly wheezy Joker laugh

giving ♫ "I'm the prodigal son" ♫ to the orphaned Penguin

Jason conveying Batman's growing frustration with only small movements

that smooth riff in the final chorus

Trivia:

○ All of these actors have appeared in previous "Unexpected Musicals" videos.

Jason was the prince in "Snow Spears", and one of the Mary Poppins chimney sweeps in "The Disney Showman".

Robby played Captain Hook in "Look What You Made Me Brew".

James was the elder Walt in "The Disney Showman".

Leah has inhabited several roles across the series, from Cinderella to Maleficent.

Navid was part of the crowds in both "Hocus Heathens" and "Beauty and the Bieber".

○ Jason's costume was created by The Batsmith, an Australian sculptor and costume maker who specializes in replicas of pieces from live-action Batman movies.

○ The incredible Joker and Penguin prosthetics were created by Andy Wright & Dana Bracewell at Makeup & Creative Arts, and applied on the day by Rick Underwood. The pieces were then added to their Morphstore product line.

○ In order to build anticipation, PattyCake posted a series of countdown teaser images to their social media in the days leading up to the video's release.

○ Layne posted behind the scenes videos of James during both filming and editing on his Instagram.

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A post shared by Layne Stein (@laynestein)

○ Robby enjoyed playing the Joker so much that he had some custom playing cards made using his photograph and gave them to the PattyCake crew.

○ This video is part of a loose pair celebrating DC and Marvel comic book movies with tracks from the latest Imagine Dragons album at the time. Its companion piece, "Avengers: Thunder", was released a few weeks later.

[racefortheironthrone]

So what is your history with the DCU overall? You're more of a Marvel guy obviously so I wonder how you feel about the DC side of things, both in comics and other media (particularly the DCAU)

I answered this very question vis-a-vis comic books here.

In terms of the movies, I watched the Reeves Superman films and the Burton Batman films, hated the Schumacher films, mostly loved the Nolan films, and hated the Snyderverse with a passion. The first Wonder Woman was pretty good, but the second was bad. I think Birds of Prey is criminally underrated and I really liked Gunn’s Suicide Squad. Didn’t watch the Flash movie because I didn’t want to support the lead, I thought the new Batman movie was overstuffed but pretty good, I liked the first Shazam and didn’t see the second, nor did I bother with Black Adam. Watched bits and pieces of the CW-Verse, mostly liked it.

In terms of animated stuff, I grew up on BTAS and STAS, was too old for the Teen Titans shows, watched a bit of Brave and the Bold and Young Justice, hated the Killing Joke movie, loved Harley Quinn, and am really enjoying MAWS.

[illegiblewords]

I’ve been seeing people argue for a while that the public has superhero fatigue and is tired of seeing the same characters time and again. Tbh I think that answer suggests fundamental misunderstanding of storytelling and the genre itself--and especially the dangers of crossovers. HUGE discussion under the cut.

Superhero films are a category with a ton of potential for tonal variation, same as science fiction and fantasy. Alien is not the same as Dune which is not the same as Star Trek. Christopher Nolan’s Batman is not the same as Joel Schumacher’s which is not the same as Tim Burton’s. I'd argue that when telling the story of a superhero, there are certain fundamental elements you need to establish.

- What is the hero’s motive for being a hero rather than doing something else?

- Who is the hero’s civilian supporting cast? How do they shape the hero’s development arc and relationship with the world around them?

- What villains have sprouted up around the hero? How do they act as thematic foils to the hero? How do they challenge the hero internally, externally?

- What is the overall tone of the title, and how do the abilities of cast members reflect that tone? Ex. Superman has space and technology, Wonder Woman has mythology, Batman has largely psychology and technology. Every character and the methods at their disposal should play into a cohesive picture of what the world looks like. - What underlying themes/arcs exist across the title and how are these explored? Ex. Coming of age, where responsibility begins and ends, what being a hero means, and fatherhood I’d argue are really big themes for Spider-Man. Batman has a lot of questions about being a person versus being a symbol and coming to terms with humanity in all its forms.

Now, I want to take a moment to invite some reflection on what happens in crossovers.

- The individual life experiences and motives of heroes are often underutilized or outright skipped during crossovers due to larger casts and time constraints. This results in less personal relationships established between the audience and characters, risking the reduction of characters to gimmicks with less relevance. Avoiding this issue requires careful attention to either pacing and detailed characterization or weaving in arcs established in individual films. Both can be difficult to execute and often aren’t in the name of blockbuster spectacle.

- Civilian supporting casts are underdeveloped or omitted due to time and complexity constraints during crossovers. Heroes become the supporting casts to one another instead, sacrificing individual tones, backstories, relationships, and day-to-day experiences. Non-applicable in cases like Teen Titans where day-to-day life is spent on a team and tone is established accordingly, or in Spider-verse films where there is careful cohesion through theme while depth of focus is limited to certain cast members/supporting cast members. Also note loss, parent/child relationships, sense of belonging vs imposter syndrome, and responsibility are consistent across both films throughout the cast for Spider-verse.

- In both solo and crossover films, villains are rendered less personal and more generic/flat as characters. Villains become less compelling in consequence and more reliant on abstract ideas of bad. After all, in solo films they won’t likely be used in crossover events so it’s more an excuse plot. In a crossover, the villain isn’t personal for multiple members of the heroic cast--if any.

- Tone becomes muddy and homogenous as time isn’t spent on establishing distinct atmospheres for individual heroic titles. Can be mitigated if maintaining individual heroic tones/stories to play off of one another is a priority but current priority tends to be setting up future crossover events instead.

- Themes and arcs cannot be tailored on an individual level as much without risking incoherence due to cast size/complexity.

None of this is to say crossovers can’t be used and used well... but I’d argue they need to be done carefully and sparingly--particularly where film is concerned. And if individual films are leading into the crossover, the individual films need to be able to stand alone as strong movies with all essential genre elements addressed. That isn’t what’s been happening. Part of what breathes life and success into the superhero genre is being able to get different experiences from Batman compared to Superman or Wonder Woman, or different experiences with Iron Man compared to Spider-Man or Thor or the X-Men. If you homogenize in any direction, there is less incentive to check out different titles. You aren’t getting anything significantly different. Worth noting, it’s possible to do a more realistic spin on superheroes while still exploring variation within that style. A realistically dark Batman should stand apart from a realistically light Superman and a more realistic classic hero/mythology inspired Wonder Woman. You can have campy Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman at the same time too with Batman leaning into detective stuff, Superman leaning into reporting and alien bits, and Wonder Woman an almost magical girl/Power Puff girl vibe maybe? Play into the invisible plane type of deal.

It’s not that you have to do one realistic, one campy, one surreal, etc. You can still have a unified overall direction while still forming distinct experiences one story to the next. I think any concept of that has been lost with the advent of crossovers. If you have dark Batman and dark Superman, Batman will do it better while Superman will feel inauthentic. People don’t go to Superman movies because they want Batman-lite. There is a distinct experience Superman should be providing and when that isn’t achieved, it’s a lost opportunity. On top of the genre-specific stuff I mentioned, I think a lot of superhero storytelling has become very superficial and lazy. Not all of it, but a lot. Hollywood is churning out films that check superficial boxes in formulas without understanding why they’re there or how elements fit together--using the least amount of thought, effort, and money they can get away with. They’re risk averse which means experimentation averse. They’ll churn out the same thing over and over again doing lower and lower quality jobs until people are sick of it, then blame the genre instead of their own lack of innovation, competence, and respect for the stories being told. They don’t understand that risk-avoidance becomes certain death when you overdo it. In addition to this, Hollywood has largely forgotten fundamental craftsmanship techniques in storytelling regardless of genre in how they handle superhero films. Heroes, villains, supporting cast members, etc. should all be characters first and foremost--their role within the story is secondary. The shape of each character’s arc, their motivation, the challenges they face, how they shape one another through interaction... these are essential for stories overall, but are often skipped. There’s a preview floating around where the villain literally says “your love for your family makes you weak,” and it is the most cartoonishly evil thing that could have been said. Whole thing advertises a death of humanity, self-awareness, nuance, and complexity. There is no room to imagine that villain getting groceries, brushing his teeth in the morning, dealing with traffic, waiting in line at the bank. He sees regular people with families going about their business and sneers to himself--how weak. How pathetic. Did he even have a family of his own? Has he ever wanted one? Does he even have a social life? Has he ever had a social life? Why is he like this? Is he actually, realistically, making a good point about anything that would cause a reasonable person to stop and think? I seriously, seriously doubt that movie is going to give a satisfactory answer. Everything in the preview screamed lazy and formulaic. Why even bother watching a film with as much humanity as a sock-puppet performance? It’s not the genre’s fault. It’s not even the characters’ fault. Any genre, any cast, would suffer the same way if you gave lazy, incompetent, allergic-to-experimentation people the reins. Have studios step away from crossovers for a while and treat every superhero film like its own self-contained story with opportunities to do something different. That alone would probably boost attendance at this point.

[agent-42]

I have been pounder what would happen with the dc Burton verse if.

1. all the major villains survived.

2. Warner Bros allowed Tim Burton continue with dc movies until the aughts

villains being sent to Archambault asylum instead so they could come back.

Batman continues have Billy D. Williams as two face. Robin William's the riddler. and Marlon Wayan's Robin.

Tim Burton's Superman with brainac being canon with the batman films.

Batman 4 could have nic cage superman and micheal Keaton batman and catwoman teaming up team up to fight joker, penguin, two face, the riddler, lex luthor and Brainac.

[afaimsarrowverse]

The Top 25 Things the Arrowverse gave us:

25.  Elseworlds

This Crossover-Event will always remain extra special, because it saw Oliver and Barry swap identities, an evil would-be Superman, the introducting of both Gotham City and Kate Kane to the Arrowverse and Kara finding sisterhood with another version of her sister Alex by just knowing her. Oh and Gary was there too, totally random in the Elseworld Version of Earth-1 but still totally Gary, while Cisco was kind of evil and Oliver’s enemies were all cops.

 24.  Crisis on Infinite Earths

„Crisis of Infinite Earths“ was the biggest Crossover-Event of Television, because not only did it crossover all Arrowverse-Shows including the not-yet-green-lit „Superman & Lois“ and the first footage from „Stargirl“, it did crossover all of DC Television and Film. We had „Lucifer“, „Smallville“, „Birds of Prey“, „Titans“, „Doom Partol“, the 60s Batman-Show, the 90s Flash-Show„Superman Returns“, the Burton-Verse and Ezra Miller in there, as well as Kevin Conroy and a lot of previously unfilmed Comic Stories on the top of that.

 23.  The Annual Crossover Events

Starting with the launch of „The Flash“ the Arrowverse started doing crossover episodes and most of them did occure just before the Mid-Season Break and featured episodes in more than one of the shows. Soon more and more shows got invovled in these crossovers, and they got bigger. The Annual „Autumn“ Crossover Event was something to look forward too as long as it existed.

 22.  The Olivarry Friendship

When it got announced that Stephen Amell would return to „The Flash“ for its final season the Internet almost broke. This shows how much the friendship between Oliver and Barry did impact the viewers and how special it was for everyone, who got to watch it grow and change over all these years. And why we will never forget it.

 21.  Ray Palmer

Brandon Routh may have played Superman, but the superhero who really had an impact on the cultural landscape was his Arrowverse Role, Ray Palmer aka the Atom. Introduced in „Arrow“, becoming a main character in „Legends of Tomorrow“, Ray showed up in almost every Arrowverse-Show, and the likeable nerd was very much missed when he was written out of the Arrowverse. Since then he has returned, but sadly the end of Arrowverse does also mean that we won’t ever see him again.

 20.  Steelatom

The Arrowverse presented us many forms of male friendships, but out of all of them the friendship between Ray Palmer and Nate Heywood undoubtable was one of the most special ones. Two soft male nerds becoming BFFs and in many ways much more each others significant other than their respective better halfs is still not something we are used to see.

 19.  Black Lightning (The Show)

Yes, „Luke Cage“ came first, but without „Black Lightning“ the MCU Show would have been the first and only not-animated Superhero Show with a black lead involving the Black Community. „Black Lightning“ did for DC what „Luke Cage“ did for Marvel, and it even got to go out own its own terms. So „Black Lightning“ will always be that Black Superhero Show with a Lebsian Female Lead, that came, did what it set out to do, and finished the narrative despite everything.

 18.  The Power of Goodness

Certain so called fans tend to see DC as this dark and broody and egdy Anti-Marvel Brand. The Arrowverse however did very much not fall in this trap. Yes, early episodes of „Arrow“ might have fooled you into thinking they were going there, but as soon as Barry Allen speed into the show, the Arrowverse showed us that, no, no matter how dark life becomes these shows and that whole franchise actually is a story about how in the end there is more good than evil out there, and how goodness can inspire other people into becoming good themselves. In all the shows our heroes did inspire others to do better to become more and to never give up. Instead of an edgy story about gloom and doom the Arrowverse was a story about how one’s inate goodness can overcome anything and can inspire everyone around to listen to the goodness inside themselves.

 17.  Soft Males

Sure, we got Alpha Males like Oliver Queen or Mick Rory, but the Arrowverse also held a significant number of Soft Males, that were even more fun and frankly more inspirering to watch. In the end people like Barry Allen, Ray Palmer, Winn Schott, Cisco Ramon, Nate Heywood, Behrad Tarazi, Querl Dox or Luke Fox do appeal to people much more than the typicial male macho, we get to see everywhere else. And when people like John Constantine, Oliver Queen or Mick Rory find it in them to also step out of their own shadow and discover their softer side, it is even more beautifiul.

 16.  Female Friendships

Many ensemble shows treat us with outstanding male friendships but not all of these shows are „Friends“. Most shows have to fight for their female characters to have a relationship with each other. So it is an accomplishment to actually see a postive female relationship outside of familial bonds and sexual interest flourish. Most of the Arrowverse managed to produced more than a couple of strong female friendships over their run. Bookclub matters, and so does the fact that, no Kara does not want to pounce her female friends, that Ryan is not ready to give up on Mary, this shows us that women actually care about each other. Something that especially male writers often forget about.

 15.  An Ace Superhero

The biggest moment of seventh season of „Legends of Tomorrow“ was the moment in „The Fixed Point“, when Spooner came out to Zari as asexual. After admitting that she did not think about anyone „that way“, Zari explained to her that she is probabyl ace and that there is nothing wrong with that, and that there are many people like her and many of them still have happy relationships. This moment is even bigger because it was a latinx woman coming out, and it did give us the first asexual superhero on screen ever and one of very view openly ace main characters on a Television Show.

 14.  A Trans Superhero

Season 4 of „Supergirl“ did introduce Nia Nal, who would go on to become the superhero Dreamer, the ancestor of Nura Nal from the Legion of Superheroes. Played be Nicole Maines Nia Nal is the first transgender superhero on our screens, serving us an inspiration for many by coming out about her true self in the show and fighting hate and even her own family for who she really is.

 13.  Sara Lance

In the beginning there was Sara Lance. Long before characters like Nia Nal or Spooner Cruz or even Alex Danvers or David Singh would grace the Arrowverse Laurel Lance‘s little sister kissed boys and girls on screen, fought and overcame trauma, and never gave up on finding herself. Sara Lance proofed to us that you can come back from everything and that strong bi-sexual females can be lead characters on action shows.

 12.  Avalance

Because of the rotating cast „Legends of Tomorrow“ did not really have a central romance for its long run. Changing up characters and romances, there was however one that stuck with us and the Arrowverse for most of its run, and that is the relationship between Sara Lance and Ava Sharpe, which did include getting married and having a baby. Even more important while same-sex-relationships were only secondary ships on „Supergirl“ and „Black Lightning“ Avalance, since it involved the lead character of the show, was the central ship of the show.

 11.  Westallen

People tend to overlook that taking after the New 52 Idea of making the Wests Black during casting was a gamble for „The Flash“. But it also was one that payed of. The only Arrowverse Show that actually had their central couple for all of its run, took an iconic couple from the comics and made it real and did stick to it. Westallen is also a mixed race couple in Prime Time Television and sadly that is still not something viewed as normal today.

 10. Diversity

The CW did make „Dare to Defy“ their motto, but in the end they did give in, gave up their identity even before they were sold, because no one would buy them, if they would actually live up to their motto. Which is why half of the Arrowverse Shows was cancelled when they were. However while it was alive and prospering the Arrowverde did dare to defy. The Arrowverse had women, POCs, LGBTQ+ Persons, Non-Americans, Aliens and Non-Confermists as their protagonists and antagonists from the get-go. So of course I could not stay around.

 9.      Same Sex Weddings

Having celebrated their first Same Sex Wedding Of Screen during Season 1 of „The Flash“, the Arrowverse did feature no less than 3 [!] Same-Sex Weddings between Females in the year 2021, with Anissa and Grace getting married on „Black Lightning“, Sara and Ava finally tying the knot at the end of Season 6 on „Legends of Tomorrow“, and Alex marrying her girlfriend Kelly Olsen in the Finale of „Supergirl“.

 8.      Strong Female Characters

Yes, it all started with a man, but even the late great Anne Rice noted that she was intrigued that Oliver was surronded by women rather than men after the Pilot. Since then „Arrow“ always tried to aim for a strong female presence as well as female characters in general. The same is true for the other Arrowverse Shows, most notably of course for „Supergirl“ and „Batwoman“, but with Season 2 „Legends of Tomorrow“ switched Rip Hunter with Sara Lance as their main protagonist and Captain, and more than one critic has noted that „Black Lightning“ actually is much more about Jefferson’s daughters Anissa and Jennifer than about Black Lightning himself. And „The Flash“ tried really hard to keep both Candice Patton and Danielle Panabaker around until the very end, adding more female characters to their main cast over the years. And let’s not forget that the never picked up Backdoor-Pilot „Green Arrow and the Canaries“ would have centered around the daughter of Green Arrow and no less than two Black Canaries.

 7.      Season 8 of „Arrow“

Sometimes fans get something back. The short final season of „Arrow“ was very much a season tailored for the fans, a homage to the show’s history, that also aimed straight at the future of both the show and the franchise. Not as strong as Season 2 and not as shocking as Season 5, Season 8 of „Arrow“ still was something very special, which only the Arrowverse at that point of its existence would ever give to the viewers.

 6.      Season 1 of „The Flash“

While everyone might have their own personal favorite Arrowverse Season, Season 1 of „The Flash“ ist arguable the best out of all of them, most people would agree. The first real Superhero Show since „Heroes“, „The Flash“ paved the way for the rest of the more comicbooky Arrowverse, DC- and MCU-Shows, and probably even stuff like „The Umbrella Academy“. The show made people, who are not really interested in superheroes, interested in watching the show by putting the characters and their feelings and relationship first, but backing it up with an engaging story that relies on superpowers and time travel to work.

 5.      Legends of Tomorrow

The Arrowverse had a whole bunch of very different shows appealing to different audiences, but the one ouf of all of them that stood out was „Legends of Tomorrow“. After a luck-warm first season the writers threw out everything that didn’t work and went full in, embracing the fact that this was supposed to be a time travel show with superheroes and villains about a bunch of screw ups. They did not shy awawy from the crazy any longer but ran towards it instead. They made an outsider show for outsiders, that was beautiful and unique und very much not your average television show.

 4.      Coming back from Trauma

„Arrow“ very much had the message that in the end, no matter what happened to you, you can not only learn to live with it, you can come back from it. Oliver Queen’s whole journey is about becoming a new person, that is not ruled by his past anymore. And he isn’t the only one. When „The Flash“ started we learn about the murder of Barry’s mother and how he was able to come back from that, and how he had to learn to stop looking back and start looking forward. Supergirl’s whole planet was destroyed, almost everyone she ever knew died. And still she managed to go on after that und flourish. In some shape and form most Arrowverse Characters are shaped by trauma – and their shows tell us that this does not have to rule them.

 3. The One where they are stuck on TV

The best Arrowverse Episode out of all of them probably was „The One Where We‘re trapped on TV“ from „Legends of Tomorrow“s fifth season. Not only that, it was also the best Television Episode of the year 2020. Honoring TV that came before as well as the main character of the show, the episode also did include a valuable lesson. In the end that little TV Episode did more than most shows are capeable doing in years.

 2.      A Voice

If we are talking about the question what the Arrowverse gave us, we should not forget to menton the most important thing it gave us: A Voice. Yes, the producers listened to the fans, but that’s not what I mean. The Arrowverse gave us a voice – the not privileged not white not straight not cis-males who were not brought up by a loving parental figure - it gave a voice to everyone else, to the damaged, the overlooked, the ridicouled, the bullied, the loners, the persons on the fringes. It gave a voice to those, who think no one ever listens to them, by having the heroes listen. For those magicial years of television all of us were heard. By going for Green Arrow, the Flash, Supergirl, Batwoman, Black Lighning and John Constantine the stories told by something with the DC Lable on it were finally about us.

 1.      Hope for a better Tomorrow

When Oliver Queen came back to Starling City, he was a broken man, but when „Arrow“ ended he had been healed, something he never would have thought possible. Kara Danvers might have lost her planet, but she found a new home on earth, a new family and her calling. Barry Allen might have lost his mother and his father, but he found a future, where he has a new family, that flourishes and grows. Gotham may be a crap hole, but the Batwomen stepped in, when no one else did and made it a better place. While the Pierce Familiy fought to do the same for Freeland. Everyone who ever stepped foot on the Waverider came out stronger and more whole when they left the ship again, even those who did not leave alive, ironicially enough. In the end the most important thing the Arrowverse gave to us, is hope – hope that this will also pass, hope for a better tomorrow. Hope for a tomorrow, periode.

The franchise saved lives – with every show, ever episode at a time, probabaly many more lives than most people realize. And then it all came crashing down after a decade, when it became clear it had all been a lie.

So maybe they shouldn’t have bothered to give us ten years of lies in the first place. Or anyhting else on this list for that matter, because giving someone something only to take it away again without warning or reason is cruel, but giving someone hope and then taking that away, well that is just criminal. So in the end the Arrowverse was just that: A Crime against Humanity, because they told us life could be a certain way, only to end with the clear notion, that it actually in reality can’t.

[afaims100arrowversefavs]

24.  Crisis on Infinite Earths

„Crisis of Infinite Earths“ was the biggest Crossover-Event of Television, because not only did it cross over all Arrowverse-Shows including the not-yet-green-lit „Superman & Lois“ and the first footage from „Stargirl“, it did cross over all of DC Television and Film. We had „Lucifer“, „Smallville“,  the Birds of Prey-Show, „Titans“, „Doom Partol“, the 60s Batman-Show, the 90s Flash-Show, „Superman Returns“, the Burton-Verse and Ezra Miller in there, as well as Kevin Conroy and a lot of previously unfilmed Comic Stories on the top of that. James Gunn might think he can top this, but we, who have been there, know that he actually can’t.

[mytimetravelcollector]

If only this would happened.

i would love to see a Schumacher-Verse meets Burton-Verse crossover movie in a batman beyond setting.

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

The Erotic Adventures of Batman

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/PLwWgOM by DrChaseMeridian Post Batman Returns, we see the life of Bruce Wayne in the Burton-verse. Words: 945, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types, Batman (Movies 1989-1997) Rating: Explicit Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Categories: F/M Characters: Selina Kyle, Bruce Wayne Relationships: Selina Kyle/Bruce Wayne Additional Tags: Alternate Universe, Costume Kink read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/PLwWgOM